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Post by Rlo80 on May 14, 2016 10:53:34 GMT
So, as i was finishing cleaning the bike today i noticed the bottom linkage has a bit of play.
So I'm going to adventure myself in dismantling them, remove the bearings and washers and put it back together again.
Has anyone ever done this, and is it as easy as it sounds?
Assume take them out, degrease everything, them put back together with a good amount of grease...tighten. Just not sure how much torque to use on the final washer/bolt on the linkages?!
Just need to buy a crank removal tool and possibly a rubber mallet to them put the bearings in place...while I'm at it, ill try the Chris King grease injector...i have to say...im a bit nervous!? lol
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Post by glynnsixo on May 14, 2016 11:23:31 GMT
it depends where exactly the play is. grease wont take up any play in the bearings. there could be play inside the bearings, which means new bearings are needed. there could be play between the bearing and the frame housing which is not good but hopefully its not that. there could also be play along the length of the bolt which might mean the bolt needs nipping up. but as you say be careful not to over do it and damage the threads. maybe photos would be good with arrows showing the direction of the play. i cant hang around tho as im off to work now.  |
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Post by Rlo80 on May 14, 2016 12:44:11 GMT
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Post by Rlo80 on May 14, 2016 12:48:28 GMT
so...see if i can explain myself...you have from the outside to the inside...that bolt/washer (3rd pic), the bearing and then the Ti washer between the bearing and the frame...that washer at the moment is "loose" can be moved side to side and the linkage moves side-to-side as well.
It might be just a case of tighten the washer, but to do that i need to remove the crank since i can't get with the allen key to the bolt/washer on that side. It also annoys me bit that you can see a bit of rust forming near the bearing.
already ordered the crank cap removal tool and a rubber mallet to re-install the bearings.
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Post by glynnsixo on May 14, 2016 14:12:49 GMT
When you say you need to remove the crank, do you mean because the chainring is in the way? Can you poke the allen key through any gaps in the chainring and use a round ended allen key to get at it from a slight angle. Your only captivating it so you can tighten the bolt from the other side
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Post by andy4d on May 14, 2016 15:31:32 GMT
Does that bike ever get ridden. That is the cleanest drive train I have seen. Looks cleaner than mine was new.
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Post by jgmu97 on May 14, 2016 16:59:07 GMT
I done the bearing swap on my old Maxim. There's a thread on here somewhere.
It went okay, bit of a faff removing the bearings and replacing them without the correct tools. I used a couple of sockets, large bolts etc.
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Post by Rlo80 on May 14, 2016 18:06:30 GMT
So...to say I'm annoyed is an huge understatement. Still could fix the main problem since I could take the crank out because since its in the way to remove the long bolt out.
However decided to have a go at removing a servicing the top linkage...pretty straight forward...removing the hearings was interesting and some blood from my fingers showed up! Putting them back on the linkage was also very interesting...is there a tool to press bearings on linkages???
The worst thing about it is that now I could put it all back because it is all too tight...between the linkages and the frame, you have some tight Ti washers...but I can seem to fix both of them...I put on in, end up without space for the other and vice-versa...in the meantime, I must have picked the fucking washers from the floor hundreds of times...also spent 5min, knees down-ass up trying to find one at one of the many times it fell on the floor...so now I have no bike since it dismantled...my only hope is to actually remove all linkages and try to put the jigsaw back together...I wonder if I also need to detach the shock...so fucking annoyed.
On another note, the bearings are not completely smooth, and bit of grit here and there...how do you know when it's the time to replace them? And if so, any recommendations from where to buy them from?
Bike gets ridden hard, but also cleaned and maintained after every time...it relaxes me to do it!
Sh1t...just had a look at the price of bearings...the Hex takes 6 x 6902-2RS MAX and 2 x 7902-2RS MAX...Enduro ones are the only ones i could find in MAX version and they are 81 quid?! now i understand why everyone says a FS is a lot harder and expensive to maintain?!?!?
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Post by windysurfer on May 14, 2016 19:35:40 GMT
I'm surprised there's play in your bearings already, how many miles do you recon you've done?
There is a reason why my bike is always covered in mud (other than I'm a lazy bastard!)I'm convinced that washing it ,even with a hose pipe forces water in places you really don't want it, same with a degreaser. I changed the bearings on my old bike after 6 months of riding and regular washing, after that I stopped washing it the bearings are still going!
If the bearings feel rough then pop the seals out, clean all the old grease our and refill with new grease.
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Post by roundie1981 on May 14, 2016 19:42:47 GMT
It should be quite tight when you put it back together, but obviously not so tight that the linkages won't slide together, I'm guessing you've put a small amount of grease on the washers, bearings? That always helps.
I would remove the air out of your shock and remove it from the frame, this will make it easier as the parts aren't under strain.
Bearings are ridiculous, I think a set for the Whyte is about £90.
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Post by Rlo80 on May 14, 2016 19:59:43 GMT
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Post by Rlo80 on May 14, 2016 20:05:10 GMT
I'm surprised there's play in your bearings already, how many miles do you recon you've done? There is a reason why my bike is always covered in mud (other than I'm a lazy bastard!)I'm convinced that washing it ,even with a hose pipe forces water in places you really don't want it, same with a degreaser. I changed the bearings on my old bike after 6 months of riding and regular washing, after that I stopped washing it the bearings are still going! If the bearings feel rough then pop the seals out, clean all the old grease our and refill with new grease. The issue started as i noticed some play between the bolt, washer and frame...a good 2-3mm...it probably only needed to be tighten up...but i could see grit and shit around the area so decide to remove it and clean it...and it all went wrong. I wasn't sure if i was supposed to remove the seals or not if I'm honest. will i not damage the seals by doing it? assume i would have to get a "picker" of some sort to remove the seal carefully. a bit like one of those dentist tools? |
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Post by glynnsixo on May 14, 2016 20:24:49 GMT
Wouldnt have thought you needed new bearings already gonzalo. But for in future try one of the bearing suppliers in town, city seals and bearings is one. I would think they are just standard size bearings which they should be able to supply if you take a sample down and buy overt the counter. But try a repair and clean before spending money on something that might not be needed yet. It sounds like you 've not replaced something correctly
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Post by Rlo80 on May 14, 2016 20:39:44 GMT
Wouldnt have thought you needed new bearings already gonzalo. But for in future try one of the bearing suppliers in town, city seals and bearings is one. I would think they are just standard size bearings which they should be able to supply if you take a sample down and buy overt the counter. But try a repair and clean before spending money on something that might not be needed yet. It sounds like you 've not replaced something correctly i don't think i do Glynn...just now need to get them all back into place again...and it looks like there is a sequence to do it regarding the linkages/washers. How do you remove your bearings from your linkages? have you got the proper tool? if so which one? |
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Post by glynnsixo on May 14, 2016 20:48:01 GMT
No proper tool mate, iv just pushed them out or knocked them out with something like a socket from a socket set, and hammer.shouldnt be too tight a fit
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Post by timbo on May 15, 2016 6:58:02 GMT
I use www.mbbearings.co.uk and id go for the stainless option too, they last much better and dont cost all that much more. They'll be pretty tight in there if the tolerances on the frame are right, itll take a few good whacks with a decent hammer to get the bigger ones moving. A nylon or copper hammer is probably better than a rubber one in this case. Also you can remove the crank cap with the end of a tyre lever, they should only be just over finger tight after youve loosened the 2 pinch bolts, jam it in there and twist. |
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Post by notsarkyadam on May 15, 2016 7:12:30 GMT
Bearings already!? You hardly ride it!...... I've changed mine in a few bikes... The 5 being the easiest. I've made some punches and drifts at work on the lathe to help me, as those such tools are quite expensive, for what they are!
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Post by timbo on May 15, 2016 7:16:44 GMT
Actually its not that old is it, the bearings should be ok? Have you tried just tightening up the bolt on the non drive side? Pivot bolts normally look something like this: www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/image/data/Electric-Parts/Haibike-OEM/Haibike-xDuro-sDuro-OEM-Pivot-Bolt-Swingarm-Seat-Stay.jpgOne long female threaded section that goes through the frame and a male bolt on the other side. Problem is both look identical from the outside, so you never know which way round it is in the frame. Turn the non drive side one, if it moves and you see the bolt behind the chain ring rotate, you're turning the female end, your pivots are loose and you just need to take the crank off, get an allen key in both sides, tighten. If it turns, but the opposite side doesn't turn with it, you've got the male end, your pivots were loose and the play should go. If you cant tighten it any further your bearings are shagged. With the washers, there are likely different thicknesses for different pivots, make sure youre using the right ones, otherwise just use a bit more force to get the lineage over them. |
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Post by beansontoast on May 15, 2016 8:25:48 GMT
I changed all the bearings on my bike after just a couple of months.. Whacked 'em with a big ommer, a socket and extension bar.
Changed from the standard tat to some better quality ones.
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Post by Rlo80 on May 15, 2016 8:29:58 GMT
thanks guys...yes, i don't think the bearings need changing yet since I've ridden the bike for about 35 hours total...one or two are not entirely smooth with a bit a grit here and there but i think still fine. (however i think Kingdom are sending me some new ones)
the issue started when i saw that one of those bolts as Timbo says was loose with the washer loose in between...the one in question sits behind the crank and i can't get to it without removing the crank...and i need to remove it properly to give it a good clean. So i decided to take the top one to "have a go" and practice...LOL...removing the bearings from the linkage was a true pain in the ass and I'm getting the proper tool for sure, hopefully the Superstar one because its cheap...and now i can't put it back on because Kingdom tells me there is a sequence...its the Ti washers that are a pain because they need to be really tight of course.
Thanks Timbo, that website has the Enduro bearings cheaper than the previous website i was looking at. Looks like on the MAX version, you tend to only find the Enduro ones. i know the ones on the frame are from China, TPX and supply bearings for Merida, Sram, Trek, Giant and Santa Cruz...even though the frame spec mentions they should be MAX versions, I'm not sure the ones on the actual frame are...at least they don't say on the seals.
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Post by jgmu97 on May 15, 2016 9:28:03 GMT
Trying to get the maxim back together was a right pain too. I put the bearings and washers In the freezer and left the frame out in the sun for the afternoon. The differences may have been neglible but it might be worth a try...
Still, I don't see why the bearings have started to go already!
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Post by Rlo80 on May 15, 2016 13:32:46 GMT
All back together again...nice and tight as it should...quite proud of myself really. Not only that but i serviced the BB as well!?!?! Does that make me an intermediate bike mechanic now?
However on the lower linkage i didn't take the bearings out...they are pretty stuck...
Even though on some of the bearings you can feel a bit of grit, there is no play in them, and the whole thing really just needed a good clean and get tight again.
Things I've learnt today:
1- I'm buying that bearing tool...giving Superstar a call tomorrow
2- grease gun i bought from Halfords is pretty shit...grease coming out everywhere possible...took it back and got a refund and a free grease tube as well, so can't really complain. For a tenner, i couldn't ask for much i guess, so now i need to get a better one. Any suggestions?
3- learn a bit about bearings
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Post by timbo on May 16, 2016 13:38:13 GMT
Do you have grease ports on your linkages, santa cruz style? If so you wont be able to use them with rubber sealed bearings in.
If you're feeling brave enough to take it all to bits again, with the bearings still in place, if you pop the rubber seal off, flush out the old grease with wd40 or whatever and then repack them with fresh, that'll make a world of difference most of the time. Bearings are generally designed to be spun round at high speed, so they dont put too much grease in, to allow for thermal expansion, high efficiencies, etc, when you fill them full of dog shit and rotate them back and forth constantly over say 30deg, they want as much grease as you can get in there.
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Post by Rlo80 on May 16, 2016 16:05:54 GMT
Thanks Timbo...I've got no idea what you mean I'm afraid!?
However, the good news is that Kingdom are sending me some spares bearings...how cool is that?
To be fair I noticed that, apart from 2, they are not MAX as they are supposed to be...so I'll continue with these and later on after I buy the bearing tool I'll fit the new ones...I'm not sure how would I remove the plastic seal on the hearings without damaging it to be honest!?
Unfortunately I phoned superstar, and they no longer have that cheap tool...they are trying to see if anyone will do it for them otherwise they will do it themselves in the future but couldn't tell me when...a bit painful to fork out 70 quid for the RRP one but it might be the way...however like I did with the CK tool, I think it's worth it in the end...and I don't see myself getting rid of this bike because I love it...
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Post by step on May 17, 2016 19:36:34 GMT
Missed this totally but do what Timbo said it'll make the bearings last longer. Tool wise I used a couple of drifts in the past with a dirty great 32oz dead blow (pow pow). to help them in they get a liberal coating of light suspension oil to help them slide in  an a slightly smaller 16oz hammer to set them home. You "can" get away with using a headset press on some bearings as well. |
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!?!??!?!?!?!? F&^% me...
an a slightly smaller 16oz hammer to set them home. You "can" get away with using a headset press on some bearings as well.