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Post by leedodds1 on Jan 25, 2016 10:19:51 GMT
Pedals down or pedals flat? That is the question!
When riding sweeping corners and tight berms I've always rode with my inside pedal up, 1. To avoid striking the inside pedal on the ground when leaning over and 2. It reals more natural.
After looking at the photos of the guys who were in the top 3 at the Funudro I noticed they all cornered pedals flat which in turn allowed the bike to lean into the corning more, looking at my photos with my inside foot up the bike is a lot more upright and I'm turning the bars more. I then read an article in MBR which in short said, corning with flat pedals allows you to be more reactive mid corner and your body weight/position on the bike allows you to carry more speed through the corner.
So yesterday and Hamsterley I gave cornering with flat pedals a go and although being hard work getting use to the new position I did feel quicker and in more control, plus my Strava times showed some PB's on the descents.
Does anyone else corner with flat pedals?
Cheers
Lee
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Post by hodgy on Jan 25, 2016 10:25:37 GMT
No ..I've always adopted the inside up position..for the very reason you described
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Post by marsbarman on Jan 25, 2016 11:24:36 GMT
Bermed corner, keep your pedals level so that your weight is all centered and you can use all your weight to pump through it.
Flat corner, outside foot down and learn the bike not your body, this keeps the centre of weight in the middle of the bike and pushing down into the ground allowing the tyres to grip, if you lean you'll be pushing the tyres out and risk sliding out.
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Post by getonyourbike on Jan 25, 2016 11:46:28 GMT
This is one of my favourite topics!
So many coaches teach the outside pedal down/inside pedal up cornering technique. This technique is good for one thing, which is getting riders to start to lean the bike over into a corner, rather than their bodies. It's simple, so lots of people pick it up really easily, which is great. This leads to happy people leaving their coaching sessions, which is obviously good for business. HOWEVER, as soon that outside pedal is down, the knee is locked out and you've lost that suspension you had in your legs, and the grip that goes with it. At the same time, you lose the ability to push into corners with your legs to find grip, pump to create more speed, or in some cases, lose grip at will. Your centre of gravity (COG) is also a bit higher, which again, sucks.
The other technique is the 'pedals level' one. I've put marks around that, because your pedals aren't actually level relative to your bike,or your body, but to the imaginary level position. This technique is the one everybody should be aiming for, because it allows you to do opposite of all the bad points in the the other technique, while still leaning the bike over. The reason it is so little talked about, is because it is much harder to teach, learn and then become good at applying. Generally, newer riders will feel like they haven't made as much progress during a coaching session, as they would have liked, because they didn't grasp it in the session, but it will leave them something to work on in the future and will make them better riders in the long term. For more advanced riders, it normally makes a dramatic difference and completely changes cornering for them. The other issue is that also requires a greater level of mobility in your knees and hips to get right, as well as needing other parts of your body position to be perfect, to allow the bike to be leant over. When you get it right, it will feel like you're on rails. I've had riders at the start of the session, who were gingerly picking their way down a set of berms, to by the end, carrying a hell of a lot of speed and drifting into them.
Got a bit carried away there. Hope that explains it properly for you.
Edot- another reason why outside pedal down sucks. On multiple corners in quick succession, you've got much more to think about with switching your feet all the time. With pedal level, you don't have to worry about any of that.
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Post by hodgy on Jan 25, 2016 11:58:44 GMT
Spot on ...now then ..old dog new tricks ..
But I will give it a go ...I like chocolates not flowers if visiting ....
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Post by duke on Jan 25, 2016 12:39:13 GMT
Always have pedals level no matter the type of corner, i used to have inside leg up if it was just a normal corner but as ive progressed i just naturally phased it out...
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Post by duke on Jan 25, 2016 12:43:16 GMT
This is one of my favourite topics! So many coaches teach the outside pedal down/inside pedal up cornering technique. This technique is good for one thing, which is getting riders to start to lean the bike over into a corner, rather than their bodies. It's simple, so lots of people pick it up really easily, which is great. This leads to happy people leaving their coaching sessions, which is obviously good for business. HOWEVER, as soon that outside pedal is down, the knee is locked out and you've lost that suspension you had in your legs, and the grip that goes with it. At the same time, you lose the ability to push into corners with your legs to find grip, pump to create more speed, or in some cases, lose grip at will. Your centre of gravity (COG) is also a bit higher, which again, sucks. The other technique is the 'pedals level' one. I've put marks around that, because your pedals aren't actually level relative to your bike, but to your body. This technique is the one everybody should be aiming for, because it allows you to do opposite of all the bad points in the the other technique, while still leaning the bike over. The reason it is so little talked about, is because it is much harder to teach, learn and then become good at applying. Generally, newer riders will feel like they haven't made as much progress during a coaching session, as they would have liked, because they didn't grasp it in the session, but it will leave them something to work on in the future and will make them better riders in the long term. For more advanced riders, it normally makes a dramatic difference and completely changes cornering for them. The other issue is that also requires a greater level of mobility in your knees and hips to get right, as well as needing other parts of your body position to be perfect, to allow the bike to be leant over. When you get it right, it will feel like you're on rails. I've had riders at the start of the session, who were gingerly picking their way down a set of berms, to by the end, carrying a hell of a lot of speed and drifting into them. Got a bit carried away there. Hope that explains it properly for you. Now since i follow you on instagram, i see your quite good (amazingly good actually) at jumping the old bike. Now i can jump with my bike but how the hell do i get more height? I pump the jump at the moment and that gets me off the ground but im craving more height man! What do i need to do to be like superman? Sorry to hijack the thread guys but i've always wondered, ive watched Youtube but there's too many conflicting videos. If you don't mind explaining, i think that would be quite useful for a few people who are interested. |
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Post by hodgy on Jan 25, 2016 12:45:28 GMT
You've got me thinking now ..I don't really know what the hell I do ..I will take more notice when I'm out next !
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2016 13:21:21 GMT
Yes, same here, I started off doing the outside foot down, inside up (as marsbarman explained it) but it never really felt 'right' though it made sense ie the logic was good. Just recently I've been keeping the pedals 'level' and it feels more natural and I seem to be a bit quicker around corners. It is deffo harder to master though.
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Post by andy4d on Jan 25, 2016 14:07:40 GMT
I usually have my feet off the pedals altogether shouting 'weeeeeee'.
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Post by dirkpitt74 on Jan 25, 2016 16:49:39 GMT
I used to do outside pedal down after doing a skills course - as you say good on flat corners and helps get weight over the centre of the bike.
Riding more single track & trail centres I've subconsiously started keeping level pedals - and using a dropper has helped as the seat is out of the way which inevitably helps cornering (imho).
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Post by getonyourbike on Jan 25, 2016 16:50:36 GMT
Now since i follow you on instagram, i see your quite good (amazingly good actually) at jumping the old bike. Now i can jump with my bike but how the hell do i get more height? I pump the jump at the moment and that gets me off the ground but im craving more height man! What do i need to do to be like superman? Sorry to hijack the thread guys but i've always wondered, ive watched Youtube but there's too many conflicting videos. If you don't mind explaining, i think that would be quite useful for a few people who are interested. There's a lot more to it than I'd be happy explaining in a single post, but the general idea is to push through your legs up the face of the jump, so that at the top of the lip, your legs are fulling extended. If they're not fully extended, you're not creating as much force as you could, so are losing out on high. Good indicators of you getting it bang on are standing tall on the bike, knees straight and heels down at the top of the take off (get someone to video you). Once you've got that bit of the technique right, it's down to speed and finding some massive ******* booters! The main reason I was so high on that photo recently was because it was a fair old jump at 40ft from take off to landing. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2016 17:36:45 GMT
I normally go with the first option of one up one down but have been trying the level method and inmust say it helps with balance and smoothing out the bumps so I will be continuing to master this method .
But I must say I am usually just happy to get around the corner and still be seated on me bike
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Post by leedodds1 on Jan 25, 2016 17:44:48 GMT
This is one of my favourite topics! So many coaches teach the outside pedal down/inside pedal up cornering technique. This technique is good for one thing, which is getting riders to start to lean the bike over into a corner, rather than their bodies. It's simple, so lots of people pick it up really easily, which is great. This leads to happy people leaving their coaching sessions, which is obviously good for business. HOWEVER, as soon that outside pedal is down, the knee is locked out and you've lost that suspension you had in your legs, and the grip that goes with it. At the same time, you lose the ability to push into corners with your legs to find grip, pump to create more speed, or in some cases, lose grip at will. Your centre of gravity (COG) is also a bit higher, which again, sucks. The other technique is the 'pedals level' one. I've put marks around that, because your pedals aren't actually level relative to your bike,or your body, but to the imaginary level position. This technique is the one everybody should be aiming for, because it allows you to do opposite of all the bad points in the the other technique, while still leaning the bike over. The reason it is so little talked about, is because it is much harder to teach, learn and then become good at applying. Generally, newer riders will feel like they haven't made as much progress during a coaching session, as they would have liked, because they didn't grasp it in the session, but it will leave them something to work on in the future and will make them better riders in the long term. For more advanced riders, it normally makes a dramatic difference and completely changes cornering for them. The other issue is that also requires a greater level of mobility in your knees and hips to get right, as well as needing other parts of your body position to be perfect, to allow the bike to be leant over. When you get it right, it will feel like you're on rails. I've had riders at the start of the session, who were gingerly picking their way down a set of berms, to by the end, carrying a hell of a lot of speed and drifting into them. Got a bit carried away there. Hope that explains it properly for you. Edot- another reason why outside pedal down sucks. On multiple corners in quick succession, you've got much more to think about with switching your feet all the time. With pedal level, you don't have to worry about any of that. Great explanation thanks. Next time out i'll try to keep my pedals level on most the turns. As you mentioned "drifting into berms" that's what i'm aiming for! |
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Post by getonyourbike on Jan 25, 2016 17:49:06 GMT
I should also mention that there is for more to good cornering than just having your feet in the correct position! It's several things put together that has the effect ^^^
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Post by leedodds1 on Jan 25, 2016 17:52:55 GMT
I should also mention that there is for more to good cornering than just having your feet in the correct position! It's several things put together that has the effect ^^^ Big balls? I'm not sure that's something you can teach! |
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Post by rossco832 on Jan 26, 2016 17:46:43 GMT
Foot out, back wheel drifting thats how I corner....
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Post by alshack on Jan 27, 2016 12:10:18 GMT
Foot out, back wheel drifting thats how I corner.... Custard test, or it never happened ...  |
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Post by Mediocore on Jan 30, 2016 19:26:53 GMT
I always corner with feet flat, I cant remember when or why I started but it seems to make a lot of sense. I feel a lot more balanced, but I also ride with the devil pedals so I have never been one for taking a foot off unless I am about to go down
As a side tip (s),
- try to put your weight onto the outside foot when going around corners as it helps your tyres grip better. The same can be said of off camber sections or roots
- Try to do as much of your braking as possible before you get into the corner, I forget the stat but your tyres loose most of their grip when you brake.
- There is usually always a better line into and out of the corner, its usually just to the outside of where everyone else rides and normally straightens out the run on. Look for the slightly less well used smaller line.
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